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My supervisor, where I do part-time research (collaboration between my school and his institute), wants me to write a grant whose results will be known in about 8 months, while he clearly knows that I graduate in around two months. When we talked, he framed the project as essential for my future career and a key step toward my success, using overly simplistic reasoning that felt more appropriate for convincing a child than discussing career decisions. However, I was not persuaded by this framing, as I am clear about my own career plans.

I have previously told him that I would prefer to work with him given our common interests and some ideas we recently discussed. However, the situation has changed: I have not received any payment from his institute for three months due to internal documentation issues, and he completely ignored this when we discussed the project, despite my repeated follow-ups.

My PhD advisor is aware of both the stipend issue and my unwillingness to wait six months before knowing the results, and has tried to help resolve the situation. Despite this, during discussions, it was made to appear that the project must take full priority, leaving me uncertain about how my own priorities are being considered.

I want to refuse this project entirely, as I have secured a post-doc elsewhere, but I'm concerned about potential pushback since we have unfinished work and submitted manuscripts together. If I refuse to write this grant, it might negatively affect our ongoing collaborations. However, contributing without formal refusal could create expectations for future work even after I start my post-doc elsewhere. I've been patient with him on multiple issues, including the three months payment delay, but I can't wait anymore. I feel he's taking advantage of me. He can write the grant himself if he wants, but I don't want to be part of it. I'm uncertain, is it right to formally say I don't want to be part of it given our existing commitments, or should I follow a different approach?

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    Your post is a bit confusing to read. But you have two issues, it seems. (1) You haven't been paid for three months, and (2) you don't want to write a grant that obliges you to work on it? Is that correct? Commented Nov 13 at 17:59
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    Learning to write grants is a skill to develop in your career. Further, did you write grants covering your own support? Consider this some pay-forward for someone else. Commented Nov 13 at 18:05
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    "using overly simplistic reasoning that felt more appropriate for convincing a child than discussing career decisions" What were those reasons? Even if you yourself don't get funded from a grant doesn't mean it's useless; successful grants are good for your CV. Commented Nov 13 at 18:06
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    Who would be PI on the grant that you've been asked to write? Is the grant a research grant, or is it some sort of grant for support as a student? The lack of specifics makes this hard to answer effectively. Commented Nov 13 at 18:45
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    If he doesn't have funding for you, what exactly is he supposed to do? Or are you saying that you believe your advisor has funding but is intentionally withholding it? Commented Nov 13 at 19:27

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This isn't a question about writing or not writing a proposal. It is a question about the lack of clear communication.

The way I read it is that you are talking past each other. You do not want to write the proposal (for reasons that are perhaps debatable, but that's not the point here) and either you have not made your opposition clear, or the other person has ignored it. In either case, you seem unclear about the other person's position, and apparently the other side is unclear about your opposition. There are really only two ways to deal with this:

  • You can continue on this path, and at the end you will likely both be frustrated.
  • You have a sit-down in which you address the issue head-on: "We need to talk about this proposal and my participation. I don't actually want to participate in writing it, one because I have to finish up graduating from my current position, and two because I do not want to make commitments for work I will not be able to keep once I have my new job starting in two months. How do we address this?" The point is to use unambiguous language. Perhaps your supervisor wants to explain to you why you should do it anyway, but the end of the conversation can only be once you have agree whether you will participate -- you can't walk out of that room before that question has been settled because otherwise you're in the same state of indecision you were in before.
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    This is accurate. The issue is not on my end—I have clearly explained that I cannot commit to something that would hold me back—but it seems this has not been fully acknowledged. Both my supervisor and PhD advisor are near retirement. My impression is that they are focused on their own interests, while my priorities are not being considered. I recognize that part of the problem may be a lack of directness on their side, and I also see that I need to communicate my position more explicitly. Thanks for your suggestions. Commented Nov 14 at 8:19
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    @user26416177 according to your question you have not been clear at all. Therefore the issue is, at least partially, at your end. I get the impression you're trying to dodge responsibility. Commented Nov 14 at 16:46
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    @user26416177 "Hold me back" - note how that is not one of the things that Wolfgang said to say. Your PI may not agree that grant writing is going to hold you back. I don't particularly prefer Wolfgang's phrasing here, but some communication breakdown is happening, and based on the clarity of your OP, I'm not conviced that you're blameless. Commented Nov 14 at 19:14
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    @user26416177 I'm sorry, it's really hard to understand exactly how the conversation went based on your comments here. But what I wanted to reinforce was "hold me back" is not a good argument, and frankly, not correct. And Wolfgang did not say you should tell your supervisor that, yet you mentioned it in your comment. Commented Nov 14 at 21:48
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    I have nothing really to add to my answer except perhaps to say that I don't think it is useful to say who is at fault or to blame in these situations. That's not useful. You need to come to some sort of resolution of the impasse; it is not actually important how you ended up in this impasse. What is needed is clear communication, regardless of who may not have communicated clearly in the past. Commented Nov 14 at 22:05
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The delay from submission of grants to obtaining actual funds means that students are necessarily supported by grants written before they started (otherwise a student might wait a year, two, three to ever get paid and might not get paid at all...), and if they contribute to grants those are available all or in part after they leave.

Being able to say you contributed to a successful grant, even if it doesn't support you directly, is important for your career. Refusing to contribute is not really being a "team player" and shows lack of appreciation for whoever worked on the grants that actually funded you.

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    That said, refusing to contribute because you're not being paid is a different issue. Commented Nov 13 at 18:39
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    @user26416177 Regarding the payment issues. I say this having had the experience personally as a PI: They may be doing everything they can and still getting caught up by university bureaucracy. I've had to bug administrators every 3 days for a month before just to get all the ducks in a row to pay my people on time, and then still had a delay. Commented Nov 13 at 18:54
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    @user26416177 I feel like that's a separate issue to resolve independently of the grant issue. Commented Nov 13 at 19:04
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    @user176372 But, you wouldn't expect an employee of yours to work for three months without being paid, right? No matter how hard you were working. Commented Nov 13 at 19:12
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    @user26416177 I think they're orthogonal. If you're not being paid so are unwilling to work, then you shouldn't work on anything and it's irrelevant that this is a grant for the future. If you're willing to work on things that help your career despite not being paid then the grant seems like a reasonable thing to work on. Presumably your previous funding came through the "team", not just your current lack of funds. If it were me, I wouldn't work for free, but it seems like you've decided to do so for several months at least. Commented Nov 13 at 19:26
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Grantsmanship is certainly something many academicians need to get good at, but writing a grant can easily become a very daunting task, depending on the grant. At a university, getting a grant out the door can require interactions between many different administrative offices. It's hard. After finishing my first grant (as a postdoc), I felt like I had been run over by a truck.

Frankly, it's not something I would ask of a graduate student, because they're not necessarily at that stage of their careers, and have more appropriate things to do with their time, like learning their course material, bringing themselves up to speed in their own field, and learning to do research. Indeed, it would be hard to write a grant that would compete well if you really aren't good at doing research yet, and aren't very familiar with the literature in the field. I might ask a grad student to help with a grant, or to follow along as the grant is being developed so they can start learning this process, but I would never ask a grad student to assume the major responsibility for generating a full research grant from nothing (unless it was some sort of grant for training support)

To look at this from the other direction, there probably isn't any faster way to learn the literature in your field than to write a competing grant, so there's that.

Without thinking at all about any of your concerns relative to finding funding to support your education, this doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. At the very least, before you commit to anything you should have the tough conversation to understand what type of support (scientific and administrative) you would have to write this grant. For giggles, you might ask what preliminary data would be going into this grant (because some kinds of grants really require strong prelim data to successfully compete), and where that data would be coming from. It feels to me like if the purported PI had the administrative support they needed to get this grant out the door, they would just do it, leading me to suspect that maybe they're trying to make you their administrative support -- but maybe that's a misread, and what you're actually being asked to participate in is a process more similar to how I suggested I might bring a grad student into a grant writing effort.

I would only consider it at all if there were no other way you could continue in the program you're in unless you write the grant, but even then, I believe writing a grant may become a big distraction from things more appropriate for a grad student to pursue.

Grants aren't a piece of cake to get. Game this out a bit. Where would you stand if the grant did just OK in scoring, but requires another submission to (maybe) get it over the funding line? That's actually a pretty well-expected outcome for a grant submission (both for new investigators and well-established investigators). Would you feel like somebody moved your goalpost?

The flip side is that if you do take the major role in writing the grant, even if you're not the PI, you might find yourself in a better position from which to launch your career, whether the grant gets funding or not.

Whatever you decide to do, I suggest you work to really understand the exact role you would be taking in writing this grant before you sign on to write it.

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    Another fine question to ask is whether this group has had grad students write grants in the past, and whether any such grants were successful. Commented Nov 13 at 21:05
  • Not just academics, it's everybody in R&D: you might be trying to get resources internally, you might be trying to get support from the government, you might be trying to convince a customer to fund your approach, you might be hired by a customer who's trying to get resources from the government. Commented Nov 14 at 2:45
  • Thank you for your advice. One of my concerns is my role after graduation—they mentioned wanting to hire me as a postdoc if the grant is accepted, which feels inconsiderate. What about now? I understand that writing the grant is an important step for my career, and I recognize the value of participating, but refusing should not be interpreted as a lack of appreciation for others. I have already made significant sacrifices, putting my own priorities aside for the sake of appreciation and my career, and at some point, one cannot continue giving without consideration for personal boundaries. Commented Nov 14 at 8:48
  • @ScottSeidman There have been many grants both before and after I joined, but I’m not sure if any were written by students. We have, however, occasionally helped by preparing small parts of them. Commented Nov 14 at 9:26
  • @user26416177 have you considered that they don't have money to hire you in the short term? Funding does not sit in a group leader's pocket for them to spend at their whimsy, it is tied to a project and timeline and must be spent. Most everyone I have ever known maximizes postdoc funding as much as they can (i.e. if it is available, they hire someone). Commented Nov 16 at 3:17
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So you aren't being paid, that means your PI is not your boss anymore. So you don't see any significant upside for you from this grant and don't want to write the grant, that means you neither have to nor want to write it. Looks like a no-brainer to me.

You are afraid your refusal would affect your relations with the PI. Many people will want you to work for free or for a pittance. If such people feel insulted when you refuse to do that, having a good relationship with them is not worth it. Maybe your PI will understand if you refuse, maybe not. In the latter case, maybe you should not worry about their opinion.

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I want to update my post here; however, since I was not sure what the most effective way is, I thought providing an answer would be perfect, maybe this is a long one.

First, I would like to thank @Wolfgang Bangerth for his answer, who took the time and provided me with the two possible solutions that I can follow. I also would like to thank everyone, who answered and gave some advice, or commented. I thought of my next move based on this whole discussion.

I contacted my supervisors. Instead of beginning with the fact that I do not want to be involved in this project, I sent them a message, exactly around five hours after I accepted the answer on my question, just asking about updates, giving the impression that I want to discuss my issues, and also about the project, after all, maybe we would all end up satisfied (as I said, I took the whole discussion in consideration). The message was ignored by both (not a single word was sent back to me, not an emoji that might imply, or at least that I would interpret as: I have read your message, I am a bit busy, will back to you soon) for three days. I am not sure, maybe if I removed the part related to my problem, that message would not have been ignored?

I decided to send what is called a professional email; I started by thanking them for the time they are giving to resolve my issues, acknowledging how busy they are currently. I then simply told them directly, what exactly means: I would not be participating in this project while I am not being paid, I have other concerns that can't happen simultaneously with this problem (The problems that you would have if you are not paid). I did not think about what it would bring me (career-wise). You might say that I already worked for free, but this is not accurate, I was working while waiting to be paid, "There is just a small delay". Additionally, part of this work is my PhD work, so yes, I was working while hoping my problem would be soon resolved, but now I cannot wait any longer.

On a side note, my email was clear, respectful, and explicit. Thirty minutes after sending that email, I received a message from the supervisor (from the external institute), and it was no different from what I already thought it was going to be: asking if I can meet them tomorrow, so that we can discuss why my payment is taking too long, and to discuss our plan (the plan that I just said I won't be part of it while unpaid). That is fine, maybe when we meet, there will be a solution. So, I sent back: Yes, I can come, only if you are going to resolve my issue, because quite frankly, I can't come otherwise, since I just told you what the matter is that I am sending you the email for. This message has been in his inbox for a while, although I replied to him immediately. (I do not expect immediate responses).

From here, I really don't want to rush things. But, from my previous expreience, I expect this message to be ignored (like many others), and to be honest, I kind of got my answer (Maybe they discuss internally how to deal with this? Maybe, but I would inform the other party if such thing is hapening). This is the first time I face a significant problem with them, to me, if you do not want to put effort into solving this problem, I do not want to guess what issues we might have in the future.

Another thing I would like to add, I know how slow things can be in academia, from writing manuscripts, publishing research, getting grants accepted, and getting funding out for your students. Therefore, I would like you to know, that my problem is not from yesterday, nor from one month ago; it has been three months, during which I have been constantly asking for updates on my problem. So please, consider this before you give your opinion, which I appreciate nonetheless.

Thank you all.

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